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Dieses Thema hat 14 Antworten
und wurde 9.271 mal aufgerufen
 Mitteilungen GPL Gentlemen Liga
Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

11.02.2018 11:02
Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Hi all

First of all I would like to say Im perfectly happy with the format and concept of this wonderful online league as it is ,Im absolutely loving it as the commercial says. But Im really impressed by this patch by Olaf and I would like to propose it as an option to be considered for the future. Its a patch with a "lock" so if the host is running it you wont be able to join races anc vice versa. Im sure most of you already know about this patch.

In short this patch introduces 3 things : Tirewear , dirty tires effect and pitstop repair. (well also change tires so I guess thats four). The tirewear function is not gonna apply to us unless we want it to. Its set to kick in after approx one hour in pro mode and two hours of GP mode. So if our pro race is an hour and five minutes we would feel the tirewear effect in the last five minutes. In the GP`s not at all. In free practice it kicks in after approx 30 min of running this patch. The effect is subtle and nice , I did a stint on Imola and when the tires started to go I dropped about a sec a lap , car was still fine to drive but with slightly more slip. The wear does depends on how hard you drive the car though , it might kick in sooner.

The dirty tires effect is somewhat the same as other games , If you go off and get dirt and grass on the tires you will feel slightly reduced grip for a few corners.

Then there is the repair option. If you can get to the pit , stop at the pitboard with your name and put the car in reverse. It will be jacked up and remain that way for 15 sec. When jacked up you can put the car in 1st gear and be ready to go as soon as it drops. You can also change tires by remaining in the pit and putting the car in a different gear than reverse , this takes an additional 15 sec. You cannot fix a blown engine.

This repair option would be great for Geli I think. If you can get yourself to the pits you can finish the race. If you have damage that costs you time you can evaluate if you wanna stay in the race with it or drop by the pits and fix it. Its either way gonna cost time and it would be the same for everyone.

I struggled a little to find it but found it in the gplweekly archives.

So thats my two cents , let me know what you guys think about this.

Hans Marfan Offline

Renn-Legende


Beiträge: 1.403

12.02.2018 10:28
#2 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

I'm pretty much against it. If wie were interested in a resurrection option, we could do it the FunLiga way - allowing Shift-R with a stop at the pit afterwards. The result is the same. It would be even more fair than the patch way, since the GPL damage model often enough causes heavy damage at light crashes, sometimes does close to nothing after heavy flights. So no " I couldn't return to the pits after light touching with the loss of two wheels, other guy could after harder crash, wie need a new mode."
As for the tires, it's tricky enough the way it is in my view.
Finally - I feel it like this - it would be contrary to one of the core thoughts the league was founded on: take care not to fuck up.

I gotta say that in my view in the close past some 'patches' were released that are a waste of programming skills since they address problems that aren't really such. GPL has other issues , e.g. multicore and gfx card support.

Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

12.02.2018 21:52
#3 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Well youre only against this young man because you havent fully figured out how friggin AWSOME this patch is. Its not a guaranteed ressurection option we are talking about , if youre out then youre out. But there are certain instances where one is out due to minor things as well , this opens a tiny glimmer of hope to finish a race despite problems of a certain character. But certain crashes there is no coming back from obviously and I think it should stay that way. This patch wouldnt have helped me at Sachsenring but it could have helped Claudio f ex.

Since its an option nobody plans to use in a race it doesnt change anything really. It adds something is more like it. The core league principal you so eloquently conveyed remains intact , nor would I dream of proposing something against it good Sir. I do not think this would turn us into perpetual fuck ups so to speak.

As for the tirewear there isnt any to worry about due to the length of the races.

The dirty tire effect is however something new. Grass and gravel will make it slippery for a few seconds , Im fine with that in a race. Thats a real thing. Sure it can create incidents and runoffs but also overtaking opportunities that otherwise wouldnt have been there.It adds something as well.Its not a drastic effect either but one needs to consider it when it happens. But I fully respect that folks arent looking to make this game any harder , no problems with that. But Im gonna keep selling it cause this patch is brilliant.I heard it got a Nobel patch prize.. or was at least nominated or something.

Claudio Callipo Offline

Renn-Legende


Beiträge: 1.458

12.02.2018 22:57
#4 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

I do not know to what extent Olaf has changed this patch. But he was already used at the EOLC to try.
And it was great fun!
Because it worked. It did not make a big difference to the results, but it was funny.
But I would not change this league big because it contradicts the original idea.
You should be new but not negative. There are certainly ways to try out new things or schedule them. The Fun League would be a good example.

Mit sportlichem Gruss
Claudio
-----------------------------------------------------
Vernünftige Autos werden vom Antrieb geschoben, nicht gezogen !!! (Walter Röhrl)

Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

13.02.2018 02:19
#5 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Ok guys , listen , Im in no way , shape or form suggesting we turn this into a Int mode \ shiftR league , heavens forbid no.Thats not what this is , just to be clear. Im not proposing any big changes either. I think this is a brilliant league concept with its unforgiving format.Wouldnt change anything , on the same page. Ok? So this is not going against the original idea or intent of geli in any way. Wouldnt dream of it or have any motive to do so.

Running this patch in Int mode (eolc) or in Pro \ GP mode (geli) are two different things. If I thought in any way it would interfere with the format I would not have brought it up as I myself dont want that to change either. See it in a pro \ GP context. Seems the only sensible format for a patch like this anyway. Then its not such a radical proposal , nor does it change much. If you run a clean race you wont know its there. If you damage the car you can fix some things but not others and you have to get yourself to the pit. If you cant, its race over. Its that simple. Nothing else changes.

I would assume it would be preferable for all of us to drop a lot of time and places if it means a chance to stay in the race. Better than logging off early.

Loepi Offline

mehrfacher Weltmeister


Beiträge: 973

13.02.2018 10:51
#6 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Hi Dag,
i think i got your point(s). As i see it, Geli should stay as close to realism/simulation (of 1967) as possible, like it has been...

- Tirewear: IMHO not realistic because the rubber has been so hard that it has been possible to run more than one race on a set (as i heard/read once).
- Pitstop repair: IMHO not realistic. 1967 it wasn´t possible to "repair" anything broken (or a twisted suspension) during a race.
- Tirechange: There has been no tire changes in 1967 afaik.

- Dirty Tires: So we come to the point which would push the driving to more realism... From that point of view a very nice option. Is it worth it? Is it usable as a single option?

IMHO more important would be the use of the pressure bug fix (because it fixes an error in programming and so results in more realism / a sim which is more like it should have been as planned) which i always do since season 2017. It makes the car slightly slower on the straightway and the rubber-temperatures a little bit more controllable.

Fabian Offline

Weltmeister


Beiträge: 647

13.02.2018 19:51
#7 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

I was "beta-testing" the patch at the time but now I'm not even sure I remember what the final version looks like as there were so many versions of that patch in the process of making this patch. You loose a gear with each shift-r (I think in the end it got limited to loosing 2 random gears iirc)?

I have no saying here but I would be surprised to see the patch be adapted by GeLi. I think in the end that's what it is: GeLi is exactly that which makes out GeLi. It's raw, it's simple.
I wouldn't think to see the patch applied here aside maybe of a (side-)season at the FunLiga - better still, I would propose that you suggest the patch to be used on a "young" league like f1historicesports.com
They could make it a feat for their league and also they may want to "find" themselves/form themselves and be glad for something special like that.

Zitat von Loepi im Beitrag #6

IMHO more important would be the use of the pressure bug fix (because it fixes an error in programming and so results in more realism / a sim which is more like it should have been as planned) which i always do since season 2017. It makes the car slightly slower on the straightway and the rubber-temperatures a little bit more controllable.


"which I always do" >>> Pardon, you do what? Excuse me I don't understand the sentence. Could you explain it to me, please?
Also could you elaborate on that pressure bug, please (--> or publish a link with info). It sounds familiar but I can't wrap my mind around it at the moment..
thanks.

Loepi Offline

mehrfacher Weltmeister


Beiträge: 973

13.02.2018 22:17
#8 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Zitat von Loepi im Beitrag #6

IMHO more important would be the use of the pressure bug fix [...] which i always do since season 2017.

Take the brackets away and you should get it...

http://gplmotorworks.gplworld.de/

Cookie Offline

Weltmeister

Beiträge: 695

14.02.2018 16:19
#9 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

About Tire Pressure Bug Fix Patch
[quote name='Lee200']

The patch's effect will mainly be seen for those cars that use optimum pressures greatly different from 24 psi. For the '67 F1 cars which use 24 psi for the front and 26 psi for the rear, I doubt you'll see or feel any difference at all.

The '67 sports cars will certainly be affected as will the upcoming '55 F1 cars which use 40 psi as optimum. Again, the patch does not affect the tire's grip at all; it merely adjusts the tire's stiffness and the associated slip curve shape a bit.

In all our previous tests, using the patch makes the cars a tiny bit slower instead of faster, but they are easier to control.
[/quote]

Bei den 67ern führt der patch zu gleichmässigeren Temperaturen über die Reifenfläche dadurch mehr Rollwiderstand.
Vorsicht bei Überdruck gibt's auch weniger Balloneffekt...

Gruss Axel
--------------------------------------------------------------
arm, wer keine Sterne sieht, ohne den Schlag ins Gesicht.
Stanilaus Jercy Lec

Loepi Offline

mehrfacher Weltmeister


Beiträge: 973

14.02.2018 18:29
#10 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Zitat von Cookie im Beitrag #9
For the '67 F1 cars which use 24 psi for the front and 26 psi for the rear, I doubt you'll see or feel any difference at all.

Im Prinzip würde ich da schon zustimmen... Auf der langen Geraden in Le Mans sinds gerade mal ca. 2 km/h Unterschied. Das unterschiedliche Fahrgefühl war für mich allerdings im Grenzbereich schön spürbar, also an dem Punkt, wo der Wagen ins driften übergeht. Man gewöhnt sich allerdings auch schnell daran. Das "aufs Gas gehen" hat sich ein wenig geändert. Aber frag nicht wie, es fühlt sich halt etwas anders an.

Cookie Offline

Weltmeister

Beiträge: 695

15.02.2018 10:58
#11 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Wen's interessiert, der kann hier genaueres lesen, besonders GregT's Kommentare sind hilfreich.
http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=11664

Gruss Axel
--------------------------------------------------------------
arm, wer keine Sterne sieht, ohne den Schlag ins Gesicht.
Stanilaus Jercy Lec

Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

15.02.2018 19:17
#12 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

Well thanks for the inputs and the responses guys ,I hope the odd torch thrown on occasion doesnt bother you guys too much.

To answer your question Lasse , the dirty tires effect cannot be run as a single option in this patch but I have asked Olaf if such a patch could be created based on what he has done til now. This is a missing piece in gpl , its too easy to run patches of gravel and grass without consequence as it is now.

As for your other comments about the era in question allow me to lend some nuance. Here is a snapshot taken at the halfway point of the Kyalami GP as reported by motorsports magazine in 67.

"Still out in the lead, Hulme was going well with a 20-second lead over Brabham. Rindt, lying third, gave up on L38 when his engine finally expired. Charlton had a pit-stop to adjust his rear brakes which were not functioning. Botha made two stops for electrical trouble, then replaced the battery and continued. Tingle hit a stone at the edge of the road and burst the left rear tyre and he limped round on the rim to the pits where a new wheel was fitted. At the halfway stage the two Brabhams were at the front, then on the next lap Brabham coasted to the pits with a dead engine. The mechanics checked over the wiring but could find nothing loose, then when the starter was pressed the engine burst into life and Brabham continued, four laps down. Although the engine popped and banged, it kept going but the fault stopped Brabham making any fast times. As cars had been coming to the pits, the tyre technicians had been taking readings and from the worried looks the wear at the halfway stage was causing some concern. As Brabham was in the pits, Siffert retired with a broken engine. Some laps earlier he had come into the pit with a blocked fuel line. This had been cleared, but the damage from running very lean had been done, and the engine finally broke."

Wear and repair was an integral part of these races.Brabham finished 6th in this race inspite of being 4 laps down halfway and driving with a busted engine , that meant 1 point. This paragraph speaks to what the actual race enviroment was like in these races. There were a bunch of cars coming and going from the pits throughout the whole race but it was still in the 0 stop era so any stop meant trouble and had a negative impact on the drivers end race result. But they would try to keep going until it was impossible to go further. It was more than just a race for the win.

But as Fabian points out , there are other arenas to try stuff like this so over @ historic esports we will shift the format to pro long come fall season and run this patch in full from august to test it and see how it works out in races. The shift to pro is permanent , the patch as well if it works the way its intended.

Fabian Offline

Weltmeister


Beiträge: 647

15.02.2018 20:11
#13 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

iirc you'll need the INT mode to be able to reset i.e fix the cars.

****

amazingly I recognize/remember the video belonging to the script and remember the reference about tyre wear..

--> driving this year's (increased) engines on last-last year's (obsolete) tyres [on a notoriously sand 'plagued' track] = tyre wear & failures
The tyre technicians of which brand were allegedly worried? Dunlop? Goodyear? Firestone? All three?

Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

15.02.2018 21:12
#14 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

The patch works in pro mode , thats the whole point. Otherwise its redundant. We were on our way to ditching shift + r anyways and that would have happened regardless of this patch.

Rubber + asphalt + 400 bhp + the torque of a small truck = a degree of tirewear. The point is it wasnt bad enough to provoke a pitstop. But it wasnt many years down the line until it did. It was also car , track and driver dependent.

Dag_J Offline

Schönwetter-Fahrer


Beiträge: 188

25.05.2018 12:08
#15 RE: Olafs dirtgear patch antworten

http://freeleo.hu/weekly/index.php?page=...&race=201806070

Test race in june , full season with patch employed starts in August 2018.

Patch version is pitstop71(dg)

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